#014 Career Mastery Unveiled with Jacob Warwick

Steven Morell: Welcome to our new episode of Speak Revenue. Remember: Revenue is not a goal! It's the result! But a result of what? In this show, we turn our eyes from the output towards the input. We speak to sales leaders and entrepreneurs about their journeys, so join us on our quest to uncover and learn the root causes of success. Let's unpack what works for them and what didn't . Today with our guest, Jacob Warwick. Jacob. It's an honor and a pleasure to have you in the show. Thank you for joining us.

Jacob Warwick: Hey, happy to be here speaking with other revenue leaders and entrepreneurs. Steven, thanks so much.

Steven Morell: Let's jump right in. I know you, a lot of people know you, but maybe not everybody. So in really short terms, who is Jacob Warwick? What do you do and why are you so successful?

Jacob Warwick: Sure. I will keep it as brief as possible. I was a sales and marketing executive in Silicon Valley for about a decade. Realized that I had staked my ladder against the wrong building and started working for myself in my late twenties after climbing up into elevated VP and C-suite roles at tech startups, and. Basically, a lot of folks came to me and said, Hey Jacob, how'd you climb the ladder like that? And how did you get these promotions or increase your compensation or your own personal revenue that way? And that led me down a path of coaching others I. On that journey to accelerate their careers forward took me into negotiation and psychology, which is where my primary focus is today. And I would say that the centerpiece of why I would be considered successful today by many would be by studying psychology and negotiation specifically.

Steven Morell: That's super interesting. So maybe for our audience who are mostly exactly that target group, we, our listeners, are VP sales leaders, entrepreneurs, people climbing up the ladder. Number one, how do I even get to you?

Jacob Warwick: I guess just anything on LinkedIn if you're a sales and a sales or revenue leader. And people will know how to find me and they'll find me, they'll look up my name on LinkedIn. They'll find me right away. 

Steven Morell: Are you approachable on LinkedIn? Can people just…

Jacob Warwick: Oh… 

Steven Morell: …send you connection requests, you messages?

Jacob Warwick: yeah, I will ignore most message requests that don't have a personalized title. For what it's worth. So if they just said, Hey, I heard you on a podcast with Steven. I'm open to chatting. I'll connect with everybody there. So I only choose one social platform, which is LinkedIn. I've let off, no Twitter, no... Or I guess X now. No Facebook, no other I only concentrate on LinkedIn. So I'm really easy to get a hold of in that regard. I'm not burnt out.

Steven Morell: and I and I think we all are eventually zeroing in on LinkedIn and looks like we are leaving other platforms. So once I engage with you, how does such an engagement give me a step, bit like through the process, if I'm a VP sales at a company, I wanna work on my career. I want to climb up the ladder really fast. I don't know, three x, five x, I'm not sure what's possible. My income, how do you do it, how do you help me?

Jacob Warwick: First, Steven, I want to work with a lot of revenue leaders and some will have that goal of being a Chief Revenue Officer or perhaps a CEO someday being one of those performance driven CEOs with that sales background tends to do well in the economy we have today. Sometimes I will pick someone apart just to make sure that is the goal that they want and really try to understand why. Oftentimes there are folks that think that they need more money, and sometimes it turns out that they value family and balance more and so I think the first thing to start any engagement is to understand if the goalpost is in the right direction. Is that really what you want to achieve and why? And for some folks it's look, I need to make a little bit more money. I'm getting behind on my mortgage. Or I wanna do it just to prove that I can, or to show my kids that, the sky's the limit. Or some folks will have this goal in their head like, Hey, I want to have a seven figure year. I want to have a million dollar a year just to prove I can put that money in savings. Do whatever it is you want to do. So I really like to unpack why it is you're trying to do that. And then I want to understand what elements are missing. I know that conversation from a different perspective. If you hire young missionaries and salespeople, they all wanna become team leaders, sales leader VP sales, head of something. And typically when I ask them why, there is no real answer. And if you ask a couple

Steven Morell: Why it turns out they don't want it? They don't really, or. They don't know why they want to become one. So how do you do this? I had no tools. I just thought, I keep asking why? And maybe eventually they will have no answer. And then I go duh. Told you. Think about it. Let's go tomorrow. But how do you approach this with more reflected, more mature personalities? How do you even get there and uncover why they want to, what the goalpost really is?

Jacob Warwick: What's interesting is that asking why five times will typically get you to the bottom of any reason. It's almost obnoxious to approach  something with childlike curiosity. I call that drilling down to, until you hit bedrock. And sometimes it boils down to someone shouting and saying, look, I just wanna make more money than my parents. Or, I need to prove that I'm successful for one reason or another. So what's interesting is even the most mature audiences in the room will have . Sometimes similarly, deep-seated childhood reasons why they wanna make so much money or those kinds of things. You brought up an interesting point that, we all wanna be leaders and successful because that's what society deems as success in a mostly capitalist economy that we live in. And most of my clients tend to be based in the United States, although I have worked in different countries where their drivers will be different. So it's something to be mindful of. And, there's something wrong with how we reward leadership in general. And that is people that lead teams make more money in most cases. So when people are financially driven, they think they need to lead to be financially well off. And what's interesting in sales is that if you are just an account executive you're making it rain and you have a good comp plan, you'll make more than the VP of sales in a lot of cases.

Steven Morell: Oh.

Jacob Warwick: It's like there are positions where you don't need to lead to be what we call a bread maker or breadwinner in the family, or a rainmaker or however you wanna call it. What's interesting is we think we need to lead in order to make more money or to be deemed as successful. But once we drill down and realize that sometimes the perception of others is not all that important to us. Then we can start to release that feeling and say, Hey, maybe I can look for something else in my career or whatever. Now that's not always the case. Most people say, Jacob, make me more money . And that's it, that's okay too. But I still try to 

Steven Morell: It's also a matter of reputation. I think we are not only compensating them financially, but also reputation wise in the wrong way. There is the manager schedule and there is the maker career. And I don't think that we Compensate them financially and reputational enough when you decide to be a maker and not a manager.

Jacob Warwick: Yeah, and that's sometimes, and I'll use not sales. In this example, let's say like a designer, the best designer in the world might be terrible at leadership. I. , but the only way to make more money in design is typically to become a design manager or a director of design or product design or something like that. And so in order to . Three to five x their output, which you mentioned earlier. They need to build a team, have almost a downline there, and have subordinates and then manage cross-functionally and up. And all of a sudden they're looking at themselves and they've gotten away from the thing they love, which might've been art and drawing pictures and coming up with nice designs and creating that beautiful user experience. They're so far removed from it that they're no longer happy, but they have the money. And so oftentimes I will meet with executive clients where they've had that crossroad and they said, I've been . building the wrong career, and I don't know what to do about it, but now I make so much money, I can't go back 

Steven Morell: Yeah, it's impossible to go…

Jacob Warwick: …will creep up with it, right?

Steven Morell: Yeah. Everybody has planned out what they're gonna do when they're rich, but rich people have never planned out what they're gonna do when they're poor.

Jacob Warwick: Right?

Steven Morell: Okay. For our listeners that feel that they might be not going that path fast enough, or maybe are unsure where the path is leading them, how do you help them? Once you find out that's the goalpost, how do you help them to get there? 

Jacob Warwick: So a lot of this is assessing where some of the gaps are or where they think they need to be, and sometimes it's unpacking the role that, again, they think they want. So let's say you're a VP of sales and you think you want to be a CRO. And you have this often glorified, this is what it's gonna look like, this is what it's gonna feel like. I'm gonna get this perception, respect. Some of it could be ego. So part of how I help is just actually laying out what the responsibilities are of that role, and if that sounds like something they're gonna love or they're gonna hate. And having been in those shoes, I can at least empathize somewhat there. But oftentimes it'll be connecting them with other clients that have done those things. And so creating mentorship and those to say, Hey, . Are you sure this is what you wanna do? And it may sound like I'm talking people out of that, but one of the things that I found is when somebody is unsure, but they have the skills, that's when they're most qualified, because they know how difficult the task ahead is. They understand the people's problem is difficult to manage. The managing of egos at a C-suite level. The influence that you need to have across each functionality. 'cause the reality is this, for a CRO to keep their job. . need a damn good marketer too. They need a damn good customer success leader. They need damn good operations happening. They need all these other functions to be in click so that when they're selling something, the experience follows through. The product delivers. All of these things need to be in sync, and so what a lot of folks don't realize is you could be the best damn sales leader, but if you don't expand your scope of influence to marketing and product and engineering and all these other factors, you'll lose your job in 18 months, period. And you'll say I hit the goals, but you still lost. And so a lot of folks just don't understand the nuances of what it means to lead at that particular level. And that much of it is no longer at your functional level of expertise, but it's all cross-functional and you have to learn and master other elements. And the trickiest piece there. And the biggest unknown is what types of people are in the room with you. What types of other personalities and egos and team dynamics do you need to work with? And that's why my career personally started accelerating and my clients' results started accelerating when they started concentrating on psychology and influence and how to communicate. It's like all these soft skills that they talk about. They say you need to have soft skills, but they don't tell you how to get 'em right. You just sometimes figure it out when you're older. Right now, there are a couple of resources to help you get there faster.

Steven Morell: So let me ask you before we get to the next question. Did I get that right? That the people who engage with you, you, pair them up with mentors or you're offered to to pair them up with mentors and provide a peer-to-peer network for them?

Jacob Warwick: Occasionally, yes. I don't particularly sell my network. It's not like a sales process of mine. Say, Hey, I'll just introduce you to this VP of sales at Google right. I have worked with those folks when it's appropriate and there can be a win-win situation. I make introductions and have a community to support that as well.

Steven Morell: Understood. Understood. Makes a lot of sense. So how do you teach people those psychological skills? Do we give them a read?

Jacob Warwick: There are some books that I would recommend if you're only going to read one. It would be influenced by Robert Sheldini. Would be a top book. Then I'd also study negotiation 

Steven Morell: Follow him on LinkedIn.

Jacob Warwick: Yes.

Steven Morell: Yeah. If you follow him, log off on LinkedIn. You don't need to read the book.

Jacob Warwick: Is that how it is? Yeah, I don't follow him on LinkedIn, but I have the book right in front of me and there's a lot of highlighted sections there. And then there's some books on negotiation . A little bit less on the newer books that I have. This kind of rule that a business book should be written in the nineties or later, like old books.  And that's typically because they're not trying to sell something, they're not trying to be an influencer. They're just showing data and research in their findings.  And so I tend to get more . More intel out of those types of books. One exception would be  Radical Candor by Kim Scott, which I would recommend that's a newer book. At least probably the last decade or so. It stood the test of time that's made a large impact as well. But to more specifically answer your question about how do you coach someone through that, part of it is, let's say, Steven, you're telling me about a day that you had at work let's say last week, and you're telling me about the situation that happened. You may be sharing what you're hearing from other people. In conversations here in a board meeting or something and you're explaining all these things that are happening, I can trigger and I can talk about moments of influence that are happening there. Like you'll see these two are connected because they've been reciprocating with one another throughout their career. They've traded jobs, let's say three times. You know how there's always somebody that drags you along to another company, like they have each other's backs, they've built likability, they have credibility with one another. They're triggering these levels of influence, and now you're going up against that. And one thing that you have is that you're not necessarily part of the tribe quite yet. At least not as deep in the tribe as say those two might have been having worked for 10 years together, whatever that is. And so we talk about tricks and I don't particularly like using the tricks, but let's just say ways to increase your likability and your standing within the tribe much sooner. One of those tips that they talk about, let's say an influence is giving someone a reputation to withhold. For example, Steven, I appreciate it . You've been an advocate for me on this show today. You've made me sound professional. I appreciate that you're advocating for me, and I'd imagine that you'll continue to advocate for me in the future. I have no idea whether you want to be an advocate for me or you like me at all, but I've given you a reputation. A positive one said, Steven you're really good to Jacob. You're really good. And I use your name specifically. Everyone's favorite word is their own name. It's how you draw attention immediately. So I say Steven. I appreciate you being an advocate. I've given you a good reputation to withhold, right? And now you're more likely, now that I've triggered neurons in your brain to say, okay, I'm an advocate of Jacob. Now that path has been created just one time in your brain, you are more likely to repeat that path and stay consistent with that reputation 'cause it was positive and made you feel good. And so we can talk through situations where you have an important meeting coming up for an interview. We could take ownership of that. Through our process basically we're doing interview prep or meeting strategy. And we're saying, okay, here's how we use name recognition. Here's when we're gonna give credit. Here's how we're gonna, praise publicly, but discipline privately. That's a radical candor tip, right? And we talk through and we role play these situations. So in its most basic form, I'm a sparring partner for executives. So before they go into a big meeting, they have someone smart to talk to and they get to role play. and we can say, look, Steven, if you say this, you're gonna sound like an asshole. If you say it like this, you'll come across as maybe milk toast is boring. If you say it like this, you'll be assertive, but not overly aggressive. And so even when negotiating, we say, here's the soft way, here's the medium risk way, and here's the high risk way. And we talk through the possible outcomes of what could happen through them. And so at the end of the day, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm saying, what do you feel confident doing? And then when you go into those meetings with confidence, you tend to perform better too. 'cause that anxiety is lifted you're grateful for the experience you're having. All these other factors, You said answers, that wasn't short

Steven Morell: That was profound. I'm trying to imagine how that works. Is that the way that I have you on speed dial and whenever I'm having a difficult meeting tomorrow. I just go Jacob I know…

Jacob Warwick: Yep. 

Steven Morell: …half past 11 on a Saturday night by, listen tomorrow morning. And then you coach me through this?

Jacob Warwick: Yeah, it happens all the time. For example, I have a client who's a Hollywood agent right now, and they were meeting with Chris Hemsworth and God of Thunder, and it was a big negotiation and she's Hey, I just want to talk to you about it real quick. And then I am on speed dial in that regard. I am an untraditional coach. I don't have one. Hourly retainers. I do success base pricing only, so I do only…

Steven Morell: That's an interesting business model. Tell us more about this.

Jacob Warwick: I, especially in a job transition, I'll charge a percentage of what you make and a percentage of what you will make but only when you've found success. So we break it up into a deposit, and then when you win the position only if we hit the desired outcome do you pay me the rest. And so in that regard, that has transformed my business in a profound way. Because whether you're $200 an hour, $500, or a thousand dollars an hour, you're a lot to someone, right? Sometimes, let's say we're just having a casual chit chat where we're not delivering value. Do you wanna feel like this isn't a client attorney relationship where you're gonna oh, Jacob's got me on the clock. Every 15 minutes is a couple hundred dollars. You're not gonna wanna share information if that's the case, if we're working towards an outcome, like I don't care if it takes us four hours to get an outcome, we're both rewarded in that way. If it takes us 20 hours or 80 hours or whatever it is, you still get the outcome that you want. And sometimes I need to put in more work. , right? And that's okay. But the goalpost is aligned to the goal and the outcome that we're looking for. So we try to do it. We're rewarded to do it as efficiently as possible. And so if accelerating your career is important, like we want to be pretty damn efficient, I'm not incentivized as a coach to say, look, I know you want to get promoted in six months, right? So I want, but I also want a year's worth of retainer from you. So I'm gonna just gonna drip out information a little bit at a time to make sure that I get paid so I can pay my bills. right. That is not a good use of anybody's time.

Steven Morell: It's an interesting way of aligning interest between a coach and their client, and it looks like it's also de-risking the client. Let's talk about this real quick. You are competing against other coaches, I assume. I'm not very familiar with that.

Jacob Warwick: There are. 

Steven Morell: Are you competing against?

Jacob Warwick: I reckon you could say there's a competition piece there. Now I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the competition. I've felt pretty disrespected by the coaching community, just in general. I. Or I have negative thoughts towards it in general because there's a lot of folks that just say I couldn't really hack it, so I'm just gonna be a coach. Or what happened during Covid, which was, I don't wanna go back to work, so I'm just gonna be a coach. And then what they do is they'll go to someone like my website, or let's say another coach that's been doing this a long time, and they'll just copy their pricing and they'll copy the page and the messaging. And for the end user, the actual executive, they don't know if they're dealing with a charlatan or not. , right? It's just some people are spinning snake oil

Steven Morell: Maybe we can pick some piece of advice in, in, into this. How do I, what are the red flags? How do I find out if a coach or an advisor is legit or if it's not?

Jacob Warwick: Well, for me, one of the things that's made it really easy for me is that all of my clients come from referral. So you already have a trusted person that said you should work with Jacob. . so that's actually let me get away with not having a very tight structure or having a crappy website for a while. 'cause your best friend just said you have to work with him. Whatever he is charging, pay it. It's worth it. Like that overcomes a lot of that. So essentially that would be back channeling, seeing past client recommendations or those things. I specifically am tapping into social proof and that I have 85 recommendations on LinkedIn, which is a decent amount. I have 3,500 executive clients on my phone that I can loop you into a text message thread and be like, Hey, talk to this guy. Oh, you wanna talk to a CRO that's done this before? Here, I'll introduce you to two. 

Steven Morell: How long have you been doing this? How long did it take you to build a list of 3,500 executives that will speak for you. 

Jacob Warwick: So you I like the premise of this podcast in that, revenue is the outcome, right? And we wanna see what the inputs are. Look, the reality is, Steven it's a habit that I've had since I was 18. And LinkedIn came out right at the perfect time. There was a, I've, I owe my career to LinkedIn and my ability to network with others and connect with others. So I developed that habit from a very young age. I also am easily impressed by others' accomplishments. So somebody, let's say somebody's been a leader at Google for 10 years. I'm like, enamored by. I'm like, how the hell did you do that ? That seems so hard. And I still have no problem connecting with them. And So I guess it was just the habit of just being impressed, wanting to learn from others that have done more in their careers than I have, and just being naturally curious. And then also just not being afraid to reach out. And I think it's probably a little bit more difficult these days as LinkedIn's bombarded with a lot of disingenuous cold outreach and AI is infiltrating a little bit and it's oh man, it's so noisy. So I think timing was important, the habit that I've had, and then also just . Really concentrating on the outcomes and the experience for my clients that I don't have to, I don't sell, I don't have to go sell. Now, naturally, their conversations are about sales. One other red flag is that if somebody is pressuring you into a sale sooner than you're ready. So my recommendation is go ahead, talk to other coaches, see how they're different. Go for it. I am, I honestly don't care if you go with another coach. I'm not starving for business. What's more important is that we have a good relationship and understanding, and I don't come across as desperate. 'cause I don't need, I don't need you, Steven, as a client to pay my mortgage. I'm doing just fine. So I want what's best for us so we can have a mutually beneficial outcome. And if anyone . He's scared or you can tell, you could tell a sales rep when they're just, they need to get their quota or they need to do something, they're not listening to the needs of the client. And one of my testaments to success is that I'll work with, let's say a high profile female executive, and then 18 months later I'll work with her husband I'll work with their partner or whatever that is. So oftentimes I've worked with father son duos, I've worked with spouses, I've worked with so when they're keeping it in the family, and I've worked with husband and wife at the same time, and I'm not cheap, but both of them are paying a decent amount at the same time and working through career challenges together. So those are some things that I think it probably took us off, off track a little bit 

Steven Morell: For somebody who just starts out, let's forget about 2023. It's almost over, just one quarter left. Let's talk about 2024. Say you're just starting out. You've been neglecting your LinkedIn profile career network for the last couple of years. Everybody had an account there. Not everybody was using it. Now a lot of people got laid off and realized I should do some networking. How would you recommend To get into, to acquire your habit of building real healthy relationships with people on LinkedIn.

Jacob Warwick: Yeah. So first, this is a great question 'cause E everyone kind of screws this up. It's a lot easier to get a warm introduction than it is to go cold. Like we, we all understand that's true.

Steven Morell: Yeah, course.

Jacob Warwick: So for example, when I said, somebody says when they're connecting with me, say you saw me on Steven's podcast. That will trigger me to say yes. Just that that's enough. 'cause at least I understand the context. So if we're gonna start, I like to start in low risk situations. So in low risk situations where you don't like it, you're fumbling around. That might mean practicing on a friend of yours, maybe not even a professional connection, just a friend. And have, start practicing your story. Hey, I've been neglecting my career. I don't really know what to do about it. Just opening up to somebody in a low risk situation that might not be a manager right now, but get comfortable having that conversation. Could be a spouse, could be a brother even, right? they say, look, I don't even know how to help you. Whatever. Fine. Now we go on to someone a little bit more risky, like maybe a past call you worked with four or five years ago. Hey, I am reliving the glory days. Missed having a con like, missed working with you. I'm at this career crossroads and I'm not really sure what to do. Maybe you're feeling some of that too, like that's some empathy, right? So we're increasing the risk with people, maybe in a more professional context now, what a lot of people screw up. And I also, I really like the premise of this podcast. They focus on the end outcome. Again. They said, I need the interview. I need the  job, I need the raise, need, whatever it is. And they don't look at what causes that, right? So they measure how many interviews I did or they measure How many cold outreaches I do? How many percent responded back to me? It's like less than 5%, right? So you're gonna expect a lot of rejection, but you're measuring the wrong things. My argument is that you need to measure conversations, that's it. don't need to measure interviews, you don't need to measure anything. You don't need to measure network expansion 'cause you only need one person to change your life. And what's helpful, and this is what we do in psychology, but we teach, we arm other people on our network to go looking for us too, right? It's a lot easier to find a needle in the haystack when there's a dozen people sifting through it for you, right? So that's like more advanced networking, but essentially I said, look, I want to have, or I could realistically have two new conversations a day. Now, if you look at a less than 5% response, that means I'm gonna have to reach out to 40 people cold to try to get two people on the phone. That sounds like hell. That's a lot of menial tasks. It sucks. Most people would rather chew glass than do that shit, right? But you probably know enough people that can help you already. You just don't know how to ask them for help. You don't know how to give them a call to action. So the trick is, Steven, if I'm gonna talk to you, let's say we have a 30 minute call. The rule of thumb is we have two ears and one mouth. So two thirds of that conversation, I suspend talking about you and understanding you, right? If I help you better, if I know anybody that can help you, like I'm gonna volunteer. If we go back to influence, we're triggering reciprocity here. I. I've helped Steven in some way by joining your podcast, I've helped you in some way. There may be some somewhere. 

Steven Morell: A lot. 

Jacob Warwick: Right? Maybe. Maybe. So that's just natural human brain stuff, right? So we spend two thirds of the conversation focusing on what Steven wants. Then as I'm talking through, yeah. I'm at a career crossroads. There's all these things and you start to have a little bit of a conversation and then you say, do you know two or three other people I can talk to about this? , it. My only ask is can you send a text to somebody and say, Hey, talk to Jacob about this, or talk to Steven about this. And so what happens is we're gonna keep asking that same call to action with those people too. And now we're waterfalling. 'cause look, I don't know about you, but I don't wanna scroll LinkedIn all day and send cold messages and try to figure out what to say. It doesn't come natural to most people, but if I'm saying who are a handful of folks that I should talk to? That is not a big ask of somebody. It's not something they're not gonna have to go oh I'll let you know if you gimme your resume and I'll let you know if I find something. You're not gonna find something. I wanna talk to people right now 'cause that's the only KPI I'm monitoring. So that's where I would get started and we can go deeper into that. But we're running the 

Steven Morell: That's fantastic. That's fantastic advice. And I'm, it's close to the advice that I give very early stage entrepreneurs that experiment with cold outreach. I tell them, stop talking to people who don't know you. Your first 5, 10, 50 customers will come from the group of people who know you. You don't need to know them, but they need to know you If you are that early on, that you don't have built that reputation and built from there because there are only four ways of telling people what you do. There are people who know you and people who don't know you, and you can do this one-to-one and one to many. And if you're trying to do this one too many with people who don't know you, it's like buying billboards. It's not for starters. Start with people who know you and try to do it one-on-one, and then you could try to do it one on many, which is, by the way, posting on LinkedIn is people who know me, why else would I appear in their timeline? 

Jacob Warwick: Speaking… Yeah. 

Steven Morell: Yeah, I don't need to know them, but they apparently know me or somebody who knows me, so I totally agree. Listen, I'd like to ask you a different question, Jacob. Suppose I would have a time machine that can send a postcard to the five years younger Jacob Warwick and transport a message of what not to do. What would you tell me? The five years younger self, what to avoid, what to do differently.

Jacob Warwick: Yeah, this is a great question. And five years ago I started a coaching company and a kind of job search for executives. And we grew to 25 employees and I was the CEO and we bootstrapped over a million in revenue and the first year there. So there, there was a lot of these big wins and I got caught up in the moment quite a bit and I stopped listening to my gut and I started listening to people that had been there before and what they would do, and it didn't align with what I valued in my life and it didn't align with my type of integrity. For example, when tough times came, they said, oh yeah, just fire everybody, fire half the team, go do that. And I pushed back on that and always felt insecure. About what I would be doing, and I didn't realize I grew too fast and like all these other things, and I just started cascading into a bunch of like almost imposter syndrome type feelings. And if I were to write a note to myself, I'd say just trust your gut. Like when you are, like, if you feel like this is not gonna be a great relationship, maybe it'll work out. I need the money. Just don't do it. Trust your gut on these things. It's like you almost always know, like you can avoid the heartache your body's been trained for. To help you avoid danger naturally. So it's fine tuned to do that, right? If you go five days without eating, you could smell colors like you are hunting and you can find food, right?  Your body is tuned to do these things. So I would tell myself to listen to my gut, study more psychology, negotiation and value-based pricing was the biggest transformation in my business. It went from maybe quarter million dollar years to million dollar years. I. by shifting to the value and having that confidence in myself and the ability. So

Steven Morell: I feel like we should do an extra episode just on value-based pricing. Such an important topic. 

Jacob Warwick: Yeah, it's absolutely…

Steven Morell: Convince you to come back on my podcast one day and we discuss that. Alright, everyone. Jacob, thank you so much. That brings us to the end of this episode of Speak Revenue. I want to thank our guest, Jacob Warwick. That was a fantastic episode for joining us today and sharing his valuable insights. Huge shout out to all our listeners. Your support means the world to us. Visit our website: speakrevenue.com for a full transcript and additional resources. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, or wherever you go for your listening needs. It really helps to get the word out. Also, follow us on LinkedIn, on Instagram, YouTube and wherever you can find us. We'll be back soon with another great guest. Until then, stay curious, keep listening, keep learning, and we will talk soon.